454. - George Civeris

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? We're in the motherfucking building, live from New York. It's Chris Black. Jason, how are you feeling? I'm okay. I mean, having to bump up today's pod through my gym schedule off, and I won't be able to go to the gym today. But, you know, as long as you get to have a phone call about belts, it's all worth it. My client work that pays the bills around here at Dentseth Projects, LLC, keeps my mental health on track, which helps this podcast succeed and our friendship better. So think of it as an investment in not only me, but also your future. I tried to do that, but it didn't work. Do you have anything else? Do you have any other suggestions, Dr. Chris? No, sorry, I don't. I'm kind of all out. That was just a... A vague attempt, and it came right off the dome, and I'm sorry that it didn't work. I saw right through it. Okay. I'm going to try harder. I'm going to try harder. Well, I was able to go to the gym today because I got up at 5 a.m., so it's just something to think about. I woke up at 5 a.m. as well, but life catches up with you. I have a suggestion, and I don't mean to pry into your personal life.

Kill my dogs? Not kill. That's not what I was going to say. But there's lots of... Mame. There's no violence involved. There's a great suggestion, but no. There seems like there's a lot of people out there. Dog adoption seems like a really cool trend that's kind of out there. Nobody wants to buy a designer dog anymore because they're either broke or they want a virtue signal by adopting a kind of gimp. Since you, Gimp, have already been adopted by Carolyn, which is very sweet of her, I think that the dogs are kind of the next best option. And if you need to free up some time, this is something to think about. Well, you inspired me to come up with an even next-er, even best-er option. And one that I'm surprised that you missed, Capitalist Chris. Okay. As somebody who's risen to fame. you know the guardian yeah yeah yeah the list goes on sure sure um i could give up these dogs for adoption and make what zero dollars i might even have to pay some processing fees oh not a processing fee you know i hate those okay so you have a money-making way to get rid of your dogs so i'm saying you know if it's all you know gently used Two-year-old dog. Mental issues abound. Certified pre-owned with papers. It's like the Seinfeld episode where George buys the old piece of shit, convertible, Chrysler, Skylark, Buick Skylark, because it used to be owned by John Voight. Yeah, yeah, of course. Previously owned by podcaster and Zac Efron DJ instructor, them jeans. Okay. I mean, I'm not going to... You know, it's not going to change my life kind of money. It's not going to be like a lottery. But it could put a couple extra ducats in the Armani slacks. That's for sure. It'll pay for my Gucci Osteria dinner tonight. I'm very okay. But it won't cover the valet. Two things. No, the valet is going to be 25 plus. Two things to cover. Yeah, we did have a great story come out today in The Guardian, and I want to thank.

Purple for setting that up and to everybody involved over there and also to our dog, Shad. de souza for writing and spending time with us and kind of really understanding uh where we're coming from and what we're trying to do shoddy we love you shoddy we love you and and thank you to the standard london for letting us kind of take over uh your penthouse uh for the photo shoot um our goal was to look like bell and sebastian or kings of convenience um and for whatever reason the outtakes look more like that in the photos they chose but that's you know whatever that's we can't beggars can't be choosers jason as you know whereas my goal was to Steal the toiletries, which was a success. It was a success. The room was on your card for incidentals, right? Yeah, that's right. Not our card. Jason's pants were flowy enough where he could kind of tuck them into his socks, kid style, and stuff a couple toilet rolls down the fly. I had a couple 40s of Aesop moisturizer. One and a half loo rolls. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, go check that out, theguardian.com. It was really fun, and I think that they really kind of understood where we were coming from. But more importantly, I've been trying to go to the Gucci Osteria over there in beautiful Beverly Hills in Southern California for a while, but the reservation times are always like 10 p.m. because I don't have any juice. Alessandro, my dear friend Alessandro, has left the house. So, you know, Jared Leto is not returning my texts. It's really tough. So the Gucci Osteria is a tough table to get. And the reason I'm asking this question is because I know that fact. What time is your reservation? You're going to be green with envy, 6.45 p.m. Oh, my God. Prime time. Prime time. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm really impressed. I know you had nothing to do with this, so I'm extra impressed. This was all Carolyn. This was all Carolyn. Because that was my first thought as well, where I was like, oh, Gucci Osteria Reservation. It's either going to be a 315 dinner or a 1015 dinner. But when she hit me with a 645, I was like, oh. That's honestly, I mean, I don't know if you're planning to pay, but if you weren't, you must now.

What kind of $75 small pastas are you looking to order? Have you checked out the menu? I believe the chef's name is Massimo. Am I wrong or am I thinking of somebody else? Yeah, well, the kind of executive chef is Massimo Bottura from Italy. You've seen him on Stanley Tucci's show where he pretends to be straight. And a zillion other shows. He's the pasta master. especially for the Tortellini and Brodo. But he's like the executive chef. He's not going to be there every day. Obviously, the Gucci Austria has multiple locations worldwide. Of course, of course. Beverly Hills, South Korea, and wherever Saudis are doing stuff, you know, whoever invented the Chinese weather balloon. But I'm sure it's like a very cool, young, accomplished Michelin star chef who is going to make a dessert that is served on a plate. But wouldn't you know the plate? is the dessert you know stuff like that well when the when the when the flatware is gucci flatware gucci stemware gucci napkins i was telling her last night it's even if the food sucks ass it's worth it for the plateware alone just to get the photos of that you know no no for sure the the the kind of the opportunities for content are endless over there in beverly hills as you know you can kind of get a nice slow-mo of you doing a trick on one of those bird scooters. You can dodge someone blowing Zaza with the Dior backpack. It's a choose-your-own-adventure over there on Rodeo. But that's very exciting, and I would love to hear a full report once you dine on the bread program. Because I'm feeling like the bread service is going to cost money but be worth it. That's my guess. Well, I don't know if they'll have a bread program. I'm pretty sure it's a tasting menu. I think it's $300 a pop. Oh, okay. So you're definitely not paying. If you want to do wine, it's $150 on top of that. Jesus Christ. It's a tasting menu? Now I don't want to go. Why did you tell me that? You ruined it for me. I wanted to have the fantasy. Bro, don't look at me. Look at Gucci. No, you're right. My next goal is to wear.

An outfit that is not suitable for this restaurant, but have it all be Gucci, so they can't technically kick me out. Okay. Oh. I have a feeling that the dress code is kind of up for interpretation when it comes to if it is the designer. Is it the house that owns the restaurant? Unfortunately, I think the pool slides that look like they've been ran over by a truck are probably not going to be acceptable since you haven't gotten a pedicure. No, I'm thinking that the average person who dines at these upscale restaurants in Beverly Hills, they've amassed their fortunes because of their gaming careers. their TikTok revenue stream, so they're used to serving people wearing 100 Thieves hoodies and a t-shirt that says assholes live forever. I don't think... I don't think that actually, I don't think that's the case. I think because if it is a tasting menu and the table is that hard to get and they don't have like French fry and milkshake, then it might not appeal to that crowd. I think this is more of an old school classic Beverly Hills crowd, which bodes well for you because I know you like to rub elbows with kind of the top producers and you, it's even tougher to get a table at Giorgio Baldi. So this is kind of the next best step. Yeah, it's like if Giorgio Baldi had food that was edible. Kind of like that kind of vibe. I bet Giorgio Baldi is better than Gucci Osteria, is my guess. And you can order a la carte. If one has the palate of a person who says their age in this many versus a number. Okay, look. No shots at Rihanna, but I'm assuming that her palate is not complex. After the bill comes and you pay it, then let's talk about how good it was. Until then, I don't really care about what your opinion is. Wow. I feel like I just looked into a... A cool magic globe that is showing me the future of my life, but the future is in like seven hours when I'm having dinner. It's coming up. It's coming up quick. It's coming up quick. But yeah, I'm excited to hear about this because that is a hot spot that I haven't been to before. I'll give you the full report. Don't worry. I'll be wearing a glass onion style ascot or maybe a gay baiting Harry Styles style purple neckerchief. We're going to talk to our guest today, a friend of the show.

um about about this uh because this this t magazine first of all t magazine not even the new york times style section new york times style section is known for kind of you know writing stories about the fact that harry styles fans are ruining the already bad beachwood cafe um but you know they've delved into this now there's a story today about about uh about gay baiting, queer baiting, what it means and the different styles of it. And it's not necessarily saying it's good or bad. Of course, it's keeping a Swiss-style neutrality, just reporting the news. But it seems a little late, and I also think that... Like in my day, queer bait meant something different. I'm just going to say it. No, I'm going to say it, too. It's a better time, a different time. But I think that, unfortunately, Harold Stylish is about to have a very hard time. I think he's about to have a low point because I think beating Beyonce, even though he had nothing to do with it, is going to low-key ruin his life. And I think that it's going to be quiet. He needs to take a six-month kind of sabbatical. It'll be better for him. I'm high-key worried for him. I am, too. Yeah, I mean, he should take some time off, even though his body is young and able to bounce back from breakneck touring speeds. Still, he's only human, unless he's not, which there's a pretty good chance that he's not. Yeah, no, I mean, he doesn't look it. He looks like he's carved from stone. Anyway, we'll talk to our guest. George Severus is a friend of ours. We were on his podcast. How do I say it? Do we say Stradio Lab? Stratio Lab? How do we say it? I think either. I mean, I don't know how to say his last name or the name of his podcast. It's a verse podcast name. We'll ask him about that. We'll get some clarification. Yeah, we were on his podcast. And we ate them up. Well, I was told that when we were on that podcast, a few of the reviews were, you are gayer than them. Yeah. And I felt like that was a compliment, but I can't really tell, you know? Yeah. I mean, that is an interesting point because if we go on their podcast, it's not necessarily I want to out gay them at their own game or beat them at their own gay game, but it's more so I want to be able to keep up with the style of what their audience is used to.

And you don't want to be, you know, a droopy straight anchor weighing this tugboat down. You want to fly freely. You want it to be as smooth and seamless of an entry as possible. All right. Well, let's give George a call. And we're going to get into all of this and more. All right. This episode of How Long Gone has brought you back. Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned

They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How Long Gone. It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world, is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code. how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com.

I am, I'm sorry to even mention this, but I am fully in the throes of a stomach bug and I'm wearing like pajamas and this is the first time I've been not in bed all day. Well, that's the respect that how long gone, because you've rescheduled this three or four times. So thank God you were able to. Well, this is the thing. I'm sorry. Like the only reason I mentioned it is because I know I'm operating at 50% capacity and I of course don't want anyone to think that that is. You. Yeah, that that's me. But I also mentioned it because. Yeah, I mean, the first time I rescheduled was because of a sort of family emergency. And then the second time, if I were to have rescheduled, would have been because of what I thought was food poisoning is potentially a stomach bug. And those are like the two biggest lies people tell to reschedule. And it is like, and I really like pride myself in not, I'm not, you know, late to things. I don't, I generally try to be pretty. like good with things i have promised to do and i could not if i had not already rescheduled once i would have maybe contemplated it but i just i know that you guys would have talked so much shit behind my back george we're we're we kind of feel the same way and i can uh empathize with that feeling because We're typically used to being treated respectfully by our guests. So this was a little bit of a shock for us as well. I mean, listen, the thing is, you can never actually fully know if someone thinks you're lying or not. Even now, there's a 20% chance you guys think I'm lying. The plausible deniability is what keeps me hard. I fully believe you. I fully believe you. Let the record show. I don't know why, George, because we don't know each other well, but I have a deep respect for you and your comedy stylings as well as your partner. Thank you, Chris. He listens to every episode, honey. That's right. For some reason, you seem trustworthy. And I really hope you don't prove me wrong. That's all. Well, listen, we have about an hour for me to fuck this up. Also, speaking of listening to every episode, I want to formally apologize for not hearing Jason repeatedly sort of.

say an inside joke from the pod when you guys did Strader Lab, and I just kept not hearing it, and no one addressed it. That's fine. It was a dog whistle to my fans out there. I wanted to show respect that I was listening to your show, and I am. Kind of hip to the flavor that happens on a day-to-day basis in the world of podcasting. Jason, what was the dog whistle, if you don't mind me asking? So the episode before our episode, there was a guest who was talking about trying out a new way of saying period, where you would kind of end a sentence or reply to a statement with period. You've heard that before. We've all heard it before. And then the guest was proposing that instead of saying period or period with a T at the end, to say the word pelly, which is sort of a made-up word that's more of a sound, but it kind of tells you everything that you need to know. Yeah, and it's one of those things really that is so stupid that it's actually maybe one of the most brilliant things I've ever heard. Yeah, those are those little things. I like that. And so Jason kept, when he wanted to say something declaratively, he would be like, And that's how I feel, Pelly. And then I would just, I fully ignored it all seven times that he did it. And I only heard it when I was listening back to the episode. That's okay. I mean, I was sort of doing it under my breath because I wanted it to sort of, I didn't want to take up too much space on a show with four people talking. Right. Well, you were also sort of setting us up for failure in that way, I guess. I mean, if you don't want to listen, you don't want to listen. Interesting point, George. So you're saying that Jason's dog whistle was actually more of an attack. on you and your co-host, Sam, and a challenge to you as hosts, and you failed. I mean, listen, I do think that both of you guys came guns a-blazing in a way where we were sort of delighted by it because one of our big issues is we want to have more non-comedian guests, but then often... They're duds. Well, listen, comedians can be duds, too, and I'll be the first to say it. Yeah, we know that. We know that, sweetheart. You don't have to tell me. Comedians prioritize entertaining, filling up dead air space.

Yes-ending. Yes, exactly. Keeping a conversation cool. And let me tell you something. Sometimes the air is not even dead. Sometimes there just needs to be air, but they will sort of jump in and make up a word. Guilty! But no, I thought you guys... brought a sort of like, and I don't mean this in a bad way, I sort of caffeinated energy, I would say. Like you guys were really down to clown, as we say in the biz. Yeah, no, I mean, I would prefer cocaine energy, but caffeine works as well. And I think that we often, do you not sip bean before you record? Are you not caffeinated when you do an appearance or your own show? Well, I'll tell you this. I mean, one of the reasons I mentioned being sick right now is that it is potentially the first day in years that I have not had any, caffeine because i just can't consume coffee right now and i was even looking for a teacher have you tried matcha i mean listen if someone brought me a matcha i would have some i don't have any in the home um but i was sort of i was trying to even find like just anything like a lipton basic like black tea and the only thing we have other than coffee is herbal tea so i'm just like for no reason sipping on this peppermint That's not going to do anything. It's not going to do anything. No, it's great for digestion. Yeah, which you probably don't need help with that right now either. I know. I was about to say it's probably the last thing I need right now. She's digested. Are you a sickly guy? Do you find yourself often being like, I need to hit WebMD, I've got some symptoms, or do you only let this affect you when you're feeling dramatic? That is a great question because I sort of judge people who are sickly. That's why I asked. I was about to qualify that. I was about to qualify that. And I'm actually not. What are you going to do for short people? I'm not going to. I sort of, I mean, you know, we all have friends that are just, it's constantly something. And you're like, well, maybe it's you. Yeah, of course, of course. So I think, you know, I hate the aesthetics of being a sickly person. And I do everything in my power not to be one. Having said that, you know.

It is true that my body is weaker than some people's, and it's not uncommon. It's always going to be weaker than someone's. Well, yeah, I guess that's true. It's okay. Chris, do you just sort of reject being sick? I've never been sick. I mean, I've had COVID five times, but I've never been sick because the trick, as you probably know, George, is you don't test. If you don't test, if you don't go to a doctor, if you don't... Sickness is merely a mental warfare between your brain and your body. And this is something I deal with in the gym when I'm kind of trying to get a PR and max out. So I'm very adept in kind of mind over matter. And if I feel sick, I can usually power through. A couple, I guess like a month ago, at the end of a day where I was clearly sick all day but continued to power through, I did collapse in a dramatic fashion and have to kind of go to sleep. But that's the last time it's really affected me. I mean, the thing is, I do in my heart agree. Like, in my heart, I agree that it is that you can sort of. use your brain to overcome anything which is why it feels even worse to be occasional i'm not like super sickly but i you know it's like a few times a year i got sick and it feels really like a moral failing it is and it is i hate being like the person thank you i hate being the person like sneezing at work it's just like it's so humiliating yeah you have to kind of come at it with the energy of like not today wuhan you're not gonna get me In the same way that I did today, I tried to get ahead of it by being the first to bring it up. If I hadn't brought it up, you guys probably wouldn't have known. Now I'm starting at a disadvantage. George, you seem like you're a half step behind. Do you happen to have a stomach bug? It's so weird. I'm feeling something from the other end of the call here. We were reading the cut. etiquette guide and they were talking they were mentioning never ask somebody how they got covid and i was commenting that i also hate when people ask how you got food poisoning because number one the answer doesn't matter and number two yeah you never really know the answer it could be any number of things that you've put in your body over the last week that being said how did you get food poisoning honey yeah well i'll tell you this yeah so i the reason i think

The reason I think it might be a stomach bug is because I had dinner with a friend and we had the exact same thing. We shared everything family style. But... I mean, I sort of don't want to say the name of the restaurant because I know you guys have billions – globally billions of listeners and, in fact, connections in the food world. So I don't want to – Don't worry. Don't worry. If Andy Bargani hears this, he's not going to talk to you anymore. Well, I'll say this. It is a – and I don't usually go to Williamsburg because I sort of love myself. But it was a Williams – it was a trendy Williamsburg spot. Not super recent. I would say it peaked around 2015, let's say. Okay, so what did you order family style at Four Horsemen? It was not Four Horsemen, but very close to Four Horsemen. Don't come for Walter Foods like that. That's an old school classic. No, no, no. We ordered just normal stuff. I don't know. But then my friend has been completely fine. But I really – as soon as I walked out, I knew something was wrong. So unless the timing is just so eerily – Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question, George. Maybe the problem isn't the restaurant. Maybe the chef isn't your enemy. Maybe your friend is your enemy. Is it possible you were poisoned? It's not impossible. It is another comedian, and there are only – Exactly. That's kind of where my head was going. There are only a few spots left to write for Fallon, Kimmel, Real Time with Bill Maher, all these jobs all of us are gunning for. And listen, if it's not going to be me, it could be her. Okay. Oh, you know, does Bill Maher hire gay people? I didn't know that. Great question. No. It was actually the first, when I moved to New York, the first, either first or second writing packet I ever did was for Bill Maher. And I was like, you know, when you do these things, you sort of convince yourself, even when it's clearly not true, that something is your dream job, because otherwise you can't bring yourself to like. possibly not possibly fail yeah exactly like it's like what am i gonna do half-ass of bill like it's gonna take me you know three days so i might as well pretend i want it so i really was like so like i passionately wrote this like three paragraph long monologue for him and it was like sort of about like i don't even know like it was about it was about weed and black women let me guess yeah it was about weed and black women um and how cancel culture is uh cancer on society

and how Bella Thorne should not have anxiety. Have you seen that viral clip? Oh, yeah, of course, of course. It's nice to feel at home somewhere where I could just say that, and you guys know what I'm talking about. But then, because I was doing that packet, I then went on IMDb and just looked at his writer's room, and it is fully all white men over the age of 50, which I understand is sort of... obvious but to see it there in black and white really is shocking who are still writing jokes like have you seen all these starbucks's coming in literally literally don't do that don't do that to bill he has a very popular show on the hbo network i don't think look you guys are i think bill's a lot like joe rogan where it's like he's not good but for what he's doing he's the best we got so we got to have him kind of thing i agree and the thing is i mean as humiliating as it is to admit like now looking back when i was younger i mean I would occasionally watch it as just like when I was in high school. And that's like where I first learned who... I mean, you're going to laugh before I first learned who Cornel West was. I'm serious. All these genuine public intellectuals, they wouldn't go on mad TV. No, they're not doing... But that's the thing about Bill. I would rather watch Bill Maher than any other show in that time slot. Watching Jimmy Fallon, I want to be on it, but I don't want to watch it. You know what I mean? It's one of those things. But I don't know if... I don't know... I guess Bill Maher only tries to be funny at the beginning, kind of. You know what I'm saying? Well, and he does New Rules. Yeah, that's true. New Rules is like his Letterman top ten. Or his Weekend Update. New Rules is like one of the worst things to ever come out of home box office television. Don't use, don't use their full name. That's when I know you're serious. It's just, I mean, it really is. I mean, that's where you can really tell that the writer's room is all, uh, yes, I would agree with you. I would, I would agree with you on that. I didn't know. Now, what was your relationship to the reboot of Gawker? Um, I was a full-time, uh, editor. Wow. Okay. I didn't know you were full-time. All right. So, yeah. So I basically like, so I, um, I've sort of had, uh,

It's almost like parallel careers in the sense that neither of them – I don't slay neither of them, but I do do them. And so for a while, for three years when I first moved to New York, I worked at a journalism research center as a researcher and editor. And I would not want my former boss to hear me refer to it as a day job because I really respect her and I genuinely thought it was an interesting job. But it was very much like – I was doing comedy at night. I was making money during the day in a full-time job and then doing comedy at night and doing writing packets and whatever else. Then I left in the beginning of the pandemic and I was like, you know what? I have to really commit to... It's time to get serious about comedy. That's what we're here for. Then I had a few writing jobs. I had a TV job, and then I had a radio. I worked on this comedy show on BBC World Service and various other things. But it was sort of the middle of the pandemic, and it wasn't the best time to be looking for work as a TV writer. Leah Finnegan, my boss at Gawker, emailed me. Because I had written something for The Outline, which is a website that she used to edit. And she emailed me and was like, do you want to talk about a potential job? And then at first we were talking about me being sort of a columnist. And then she was like, you know what, I know this is out of nowhere, but I know you have editing experience. Would you want to come on full time? And it was one of those things where I... At this point, this is almost cliche to say, but I really was, like, a huge, huge fan of the original Gawker. Like, I was one of those people that would, like, type G and it would, you know, autocomplete. Same, same, same. When I type S, it goes straight to Sniffy's. Yeah. I really developed, like, embarrassing sort of parasocial, to use a trendy word of the day, like, relationships with all these people. And I thought all of them were so smart and, like.

Gawker-pilled is what you were. Yeah, I really was. I really was gawker-pilled. So I was like, you know what? I know I had told myself that I was leaving digital media to pursue this other stuff, but this is the one job that I really would say yes to because 22-year-old me could not forgive myself for not jumping at this opportunity. So long story short, I was there from the beginning of the reboot, which was two years ago because we started before the actual website launched. And yeah, I was laid off along with everyone else last week. All right. So do you guys know Brian's home address or are you taking it in stride? So here's what I'll say. I, unfortunately, there is a sort of non-disparagement clause upon which my severance depends. Okay. And I actually recorded an episode of my podcast last week and it was the day the website shut down. And I had to go back and edit out individual words and sentences here and there because I didn't want to say anything that I was not allowed to say. So as much as I would love to record a Patreon exclusive where I can tell you all my thoughts on Brian Goldberg. And it really genuinely pains me, especially on this podcast, to be such a coward. Well, for now, yeah, I mean, we have no problem keeping our mouths shut until the check clears. We value money over everything. We stand the Bustle Media Group on this podcast. Oh, absolutely. They're doing such great work. Brian is such a badass. And the space, the voice he gives to women-led sites is sort of unlike... Bro, don't look. I love when, I mean, I'm gunning for a budget. bustle digital cover and if you fuck that up for me we're gonna have the problem what are we talking nylon bustle uh w magazine bustle classic oh you gotta go classic you gotta go fastball down the middle jason's spent a lot of time in nylon because of his indie sleaze pass so he's kind of over it so we're gunning oh i see much more time than you fucking broke hose have you guys ever done one of those photo shoots where like for

And no offense to anyone who is associated with these. It's like, you know, they sort of dress you to look like Jim Carrey as a Riddler, and then everyone's like, yas! When you said, have you ever done one of these kinds of shoots, and then you described a shoot that has never happened before, I am confused, but I would love to hear an example of this Jim Carrey Riddler yasification shoot. I mean, it's sort of like, you know, it's like, it'll be like Oscar Isaac, and then suddenly he's wearing, like, the Bodhi clown suit. Yeah, of course, of course. Of course, of course. You know what I mean. I know what you mean. I have a real issue with this. I mean, I'm... I'm more offended by the, we put Seth Rogen in designer clothes and all of a sudden he's sexy daddy. So I know this about you. Sadly, I hate to break it to you. I am one of the people who finds him to be sexy daddy. But you would find, if you find Seth Rogen to be sexy daddy, you would find that. It's not because of the clothes. That's what I'm saying. It's his voice? It's probably the voice, right? I just think, I mean, listen, I think sometimes he takes it too far with the clothes, but when I see him just wearing sort of a nice tailored suit, compared to how he used to be, which is, like, wearing, like, a T-shirt with, like, weed imagery on it or whatever. He was giving Adam Sandler at the grocery store. Yeah, like, I think it does. I think he's, like, a handsome guy. It's a glow-up. Yeah. Okay. And then, yeah, and if you were to engage in sexual activity, you'd hear that kind of... wet marijuana voice on the back of the neck like i mean i am available whenever he wants me to participate it feels good i just don't yeah his his turn into like i'm so rich that i'm i'm taking ceramics classes like an upper east side wife well so there you go that part i don't like like the fact that he has this like company called you know house plant or whatever That I could do without. I mean, I will say that the houseplant from all of my friends that stay schmokin', they say that the...

It's good. Like, the quality of all the products is very good. Like, people are very impressed by it. All right. Listen, I was trying to be on your side. I'm just telling you. Yeah, I hate that. And now suddenly this is where you're in support of Seth Rogen's entrepreneurial pursuits? Well, Chris, the quality of Balenciaga clothing is also good, but what does that mean? No, but I think it's like, no, I'm just saying that as far as a celebrity vanity project goes, it's the most obnoxious, but it's better than, like, Brad Pitt's skincare brand. You know what I mean? i mean i completely agree like at least it feels like real to him because he he all he does is smoke weed it feels right yeah we had a sort of running joke in our gawker coverage of the of brad pitt's skincare line where we called it uh genderless grape serums um because it's like somehow made of grape or something i just don't i just don't think that like i think the celebrity skincare brand thing is getting is getting absolutely out of control i truly am like what is the end game here well it's because like these i mean dude these So these big talent agencies like have departments that are just like, all right, bro, what do you want to do? Yeah, we want Tim. We want Timothy Chalamet boxer briefs. We can do it. You want Brad Pitt skincare. We can do it. And it's just like, obviously, Haley Bieber. It makes sense. She's hot. Like, I want my lips to look like hers. But yeah, when we when we signed to CAA, they were like, you guys want to do tequila, Brian? Well, I'll put you in touch with Steve. Yeah. And by the way, congratulations. And I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. I wasn't fishing. Wait. So I have a question. This is something I think about a lot. You mentioned Hailey Bieber. I feel like something that is very difficult for me to figure out in this age is what women straight men actually find attractive. Because it is now... You've come to the right point, George. Go ahead. But do you know what I mean? I feel like we're jumping through so many hoops to say the right... thing and i'm not even saying that in a sort of anti-cancel culture i mean just like it is impossible to understand anything anyone is saying online because everyone is like firing on like 15 different cylinders in case someone comments like this ain't it chief um so i'm like so it's like to me like is hailey bieber just someone who is being sold as super hot or is she in fact what straight men are attracted to i think that

I feel like, and I could be wrong, this is maybe just one man's opinion, but I think women also think she's hot. I think she's one of those kind of crossovers that men and women agree on, and that helps her fame. Interesting. Do you think she was hot before all the plastic surgery, Chris? She was hot. I think she had more natural going for her than a lot of her contemporaries. I'll say that. She had good bones and a good remod. Much like, I would say, curb appeal was there. And then once you got in there, once Willow got in there and his kind of design team, it really came to life. You can believe that she is a beautiful, sweet person. But I think for an actual straight person, she doesn't possess a fuckable quality. You know what I mean? There's not a sexual animal passion going on there. That's what I would have guessed, maybe. Oh, I disagree. I think Bella Hadid. I said as an actual straight person. Your opinion. Oh, I understand. Obviously a little different. Honestly, Jason likes Dua Lipa, which I don't find. She does nothing for me. But that's also a common straight person. See, again, Dua Lipa. I love, obviously, Dua Lipa. I mean, you know, you can't. You're gay. I'm gay. But I'm sort of like, it's crazy to me that you guys can even, like, see her. See her? What do you mean by that exactly? Do you know what I mean? As in, like, I'm like, oh, she exists. You're saying it's a gay figment. Yeah, it's like, exactly. Are you all seeing this? I genuinely am like, oh, I didn't know straight people knew about Dua Lipa. Look, I mean, if we're talking about Kim Petras, that's one thing. But Dua Lipa is a pretty huge superstar with big songs. And she's also beautiful. Yeah. To me, I'm like, this is a very gay person thing to say. But I recently watched a trailer of a film with Monica Bellucci. And I was like, well, this is the most... still the most beautiful woman in the world to me yeah no no absolutely yeah yeah and like no one like hailey bieber will never be monica bellucci absolutely absolutely not all right so we're in agreement oh yeah yeah i mean yeah those the bellucci's and all yeah women women like that it's a whole other category but also yeah as a straight man in in 2023 we're so

unmasculine you know whatever has happened to us through the last 50 years of everything yeah we don't like there's no straight guys alive unless you're like a forklift operator who can handle a woman like that sexually like no person who's like a professional gamer that's that's actually a very good point and that really sucks for monica well she's old so i'm sure she's fine i mean you know she lived a lot of life you know what i mean no it's yeah you know like you see marissa tomei in the 90s or whatever it's just like you know They don't make cuties like that no more. But I also think it's not about... When it comes to celebrity... And if they do, they have their septum pierced in a way that's not pleasing. That's the other problem. Being a classic beauty is not rewarded by society anymore, especially as a celebrity. You have to be either over the top in some way or just like, I'm freaky. You know, you can't just be like you can't just sit there and be beautiful. You got to you got to bleach the eyebrows. For some reason, we got to bleach. Exactly. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. And also, I think the plastic surgery thing truly is an epidemic. And it's like I think we're going to see that. I think that will I don't know if it'll be reversed. That might be aggressive, but it'll it'll calm down. I think I'm sort of confused. Like what? It's crazy because anyone you talk to agrees with you, obviously. And but so then you're like, so why are we all still doing it? what is the right point great i think because once you once you start that train a chugging yeah you can't really stop like once you get your first botox you're like oh i love this and then four months later you're like it went bye-bye yeah and everyone's like oh you used to look better and now you don't what happened yeah i'm seeing it more and more with my gay male friends in a way that yeah it's sort of like sneaking uh sneaking its way into the community i'm not i'm not sure it's sneaking sounds like us i think i think botox is taking the front door into the community george i don't think well botox specifically but then but then i'm talking about like fillers for instance like okay so you guys you guys like some of your homeboys coming through with the fat cheeks looking like squirrels like where are we going looking like sort of human kendall remember yeah you know it was like sort of a page six story legendary legendary all right p to the god

One of the best to ever do it, George. Don't disrespect him. Absolutely. He crawled so Sam Smith could walk. Yeah, exactly. You look... I don't know how old you are, but you look pretty youthful. I think it's because you're so svelte. Thank you very much. You're quite wispy, which I think could keep you young, whereas someone like me, obviously with all the chemicals I'm taking to bulk up, it is aging my face. You're the youngest retired editor I've ever met. Well, I sort of... It's giving rookie mag, you know? Yeah, I'm always giving Tavi. I was a fat kid in high school, and then I lost a lot of weight. At this point, unless you look at photos of me, you wouldn't know or whatever, but that did just age me in my early 20s. I suddenly went from having a baby face and looking like I was 15 to looking firmly in my... 20s. What did you do to lose the weight besides obviously not eating cocaine? Was there a workout regimen or was it just strictly popcorn? It was a constant struggle when I was in high school. My family's from Greece and I went to high school in Athens. That's so hot. Thank you very much, Chris. I mean, to gain that much weight on the Mediterranean diet? Yeah, it is really impressive. How did he do it? That's a lot of cucumbers, man. The fish is so lean. I don't understand. I know. Well, so what happened was, so my family sort of moved back and forth. That was very offensive. And we moved back to Greece when I was like 12 or 13 after living in the States for seven years. And I... Because I was so behind, you know, I went to a Greek speaking high school and I felt very behind because I had been in America for so long. So I basically like stopped doing any physical activity because I was so focused on academics. And that'll I mean, when you do that, it only takes like two months. I mean, your entire body changes. Well, your first your first mistake, your first mistake is is concentrating on your studies. You know, a hundred percent. And in retrospect, if I could take one thing back, it would be that.

Very, very un-Grecian of you as well. Yes, yeah, exactly. But also, yeah, like when you're at that age, when you are 15 and you're sort of left to your own devices as to what you're putting in your body, you know, it's junk food, you know? Like the food I was eating in high school was truly... Yeah, it's junk food. We were living, especially the first year we were there, we were in an apartment that was like walking distance from any sort of Greek bakery where I could go get like a... Spanakopita. Spanakopita. Or like the Greek version of McDonald's and whatever else. And not for nothing, I have and still have to this day two Greek grandmothers that just like compulsively cook and shove food down your throat, as you can imagine. So I never stood a chance is what I'm saying. Yeah, no, I understand. Look, I'm recovering as well. I was a large youth. And I do think it comes down to... Youth large. Yeah, youth large. Husky, as they say. Husky. I mean, talk about a triggering word. It's like when you would go into a store with your mom and she'd be like, so let's find the husky sizes. I mean, it's... I don't like to hear it even... I don't like to hear it even now. But what were you going to say about fat positivity? I didn't mean to cut you off. Oh, no. So what I was going to say is like... He was positively fat. You know, the fat positivity movement had not made its way to Greece at the time. And it's very common. Like, I have such a distinct memory of, like, being at the airport or something with my grandma. And she's, like, we were, like, making small talk with some other family because our luggage was late or something. And she just out of nowhere is, like, talking to this kid. And she's, like, well, clearly you like to eat. It's almost like a term of... it's any sort of recognizing anything about someone else is almost a term of a form of a term of endearment so it's like people would not hesitate yeah people would not hesitate to tell you you gained weight or to be like you're looking pretty big like maybe it's time to cut back on the you know feta cheese um put down the block of feta george come on and then on the other side of things like it was very normal to like my multiple

cousins of mine and me and aunts and uncles and whatever would like call up on the services of a nutritionist and it's like it was someone that the family knew and he would like come to the house and it was like you know would you truly pay him like 25 euros and he would be like well yes you're gonna want to eat salad you're not smoking enough cigarettes that's the problem exactly yeah literally he's giving you the good that good data for 25 euros i'm sure that includes blood work so that was step one i so i lost some weight in high school and then i sort of like in a pretty unhealthy way uh lost more weight when i was in my early 20s and then it sort of like evened out and i feel like I feel like now I have an okay relationship to food. I don't know. I definitely don't have an okay relationship with food by any means, but I do think that that is all as an adult almost. The stuff from being a kid, I barely remember. I knew it was bad. I think everyone at that time period, no matter where in the world you were, you drank Coke and ate fast food. That was just kind of what... There wasn't this line of thinking that, like, you should be healthy. You never flushed French fries until you're well and near 20. Exactly, yeah. I was fully, yeah. I mean, before, when I was throwing the M&Ms into the woods, I was in my early 30s, you know, so it's not, I mean, it's not. Throwing M&Ms into the woods. You don't, you know, you have to figure this stuff out as you age, but I do think that the, I think that just the, we talk about it more now than we've ever talked about it as a society, which is obviously unhealthy. But also now it's, like, impossible to actually talk about it. in a way that makes sense because you it's sort of like you're not allowed to even acknowledge having a body because it's like everyone's everyone is everything is okay you you have to like skirt around if someone let's say feels like they don't like their body for any variety of reasons whether it's like height or weight or whatever like it's almost taboo to talk about it yeah because some motherfucker who has no legs is like oh yeah i would love to have your body

Yeah. Is that what you think, George? Yeah, that's exactly what I think. You're ableist. And thank you for finally granting me a space for my ableism. No problem. It was a roundabout way of saying that we should always be grateful for the bodies that we have, and it could always be worse, but you're right. That doesn't mean that you have to stay silent in your suffering. Thank you. yummy suffering no but it is it is crazy how much we i mean obviously we're part of the problem here at how long gone and me specifically but it's crazy how much we talk about it as a society society and how long gone it's always fat bitch o'clock yeah always year round but i do think it is it's like it used to be it used to be reserved for like female celebrities i think which is obviously dark and awful but now it's just anybody can get the smoke Truly anyone can get the smoke. It used to just be Kirstie Alley, God rest her soul. Exactly, exactly. Now we've got to talk about Sam Smith. You know what I mean? Who could be less interesting? But we have to talk about it. We don't have a choice. I have to say the Sam Smith stuff bums me out because I do think ultimately people are making fun of Sam for being... like for being overweight like it and it's it's sort of like very thinly veiled nice pun yeah yeah i would agree i would agree you know what i mean i'm just kind of like all right like calm down like i'd much rather make fun of harry styles but you can't 100 but you can't make fun of lizzo but you can make fun of sam smith it doesn't really make sense exactly you know but i don't think that's i don't know you can't i don't think people mind that sam smith is is husky because he has this golden voice beautiful voice but i think people are mad because he's you know much like adele where it's like i have this amazing voice and i'm gonna sing and that's it and then sam was like no i need to wear coochie cutters and i need to sing like a song about the daddy go to strip club and he naughty um instead of this being a beautiful singer so everyone is like oh i loved right v one of you so v two of you is like i don't know oh yeah so you're saying there's some or or lil yachty or whatever it's sort of like when liz fair released a more poppy album and people wanted her dead well it feels like with sam smith it's like it feels a little bit like that that thing where it's like we're fine with you being gay we just don't want to see it

You know what I mean? No, it's true. And that's weird and kind of unfair. And now he's making Satanism uncool for the first time in my existence. Exactly. That's what I'm offended by. That's what I'm offended by. Bro, suck all the dick you want, Sam. Hang out with Kim Petras, but not Satanism. Leave that to us. We had one thing. We had one thing. We had one fucking thing. But I don't think he's getting... I don't know why. It's weird. Because this happened with... It's like when Anne Hathaway and people just decided they hated her. Something just happened. Something turned. No, it's true. I mean, it's like it's a high school mentality of like, you know, we all remember that one kid in high school who everyone made fun of. And you actually could not articulate why. But it was a sort of I think it's a mix of desperation and some sort of incongruity. between how they present and how you think they actually are. Yeah, true. I think there's a rise. You'll see on Twitter, there'll be a photo of somebody famous, and the caption will be like, I don't know, but I just know this person stinks. I can just tell by looking at a photograph of them on the red carpet that I will not like the way they smell. And I think Anne Hathaway has that same kind of energy of like, she's a talented, beautiful actress, but... You know, she feels like somebody who will use her teeth when she's sucking your dick, so I don't like her anymore. It could be anything like that. Yeah. George, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was sort of going to say maybe that she is sort of a theater kid, but I guess teeth dick sucking was the second example I would have mentioned. I just want to be clear. I was going to go with theater kid as well. So I'm glad that you and I were kind of zigging and we got rewarded. Which is odd because theater kids. known for being great dick sucker no that's actually true that well certainly in my community the theater community the theater community is is overtly sexual that nerd that nerd sex vibe is is yeah they're sexual and they're poly oh oh i didn't realize that yeah yeah yeah well i don't know i'm just sort of like anyone a hole's a hole in the theater community yeah um okay george i was to go kind of go back to the the world of of health and and fitness and things like that

I was listening to your most recent episode that I think came out today and your guest mentioned, you guys were talking about fast casual restaurants and you're saying that they were often popularized by the worst type of straight people, which you didn't say this, but your guest said like health conscious fitness straights are the worst. forms of straight people wow so i wanted to like i said their words not yours you guys did agree but uh what do you think the the if that is the case and you could you can agree or disagree with that if that is the case then what would you consider the the best types of straight people to be i mean it's funny because you're actually you're catching me at a sort of transitional phase where i am actually now also becoming uh health curious and sober curious um after many years of Honestly... Punishing that bod? Yeah. Well, no, not even that, but just sort of rolling my eyes at people who were. Got it. And taking it slowly, I'm not doing heavy-duty strength training, but I've been working out generally more than I would since the beginning of the year, not to be a cliche. And I did sober weekdays in January, and I felt so much better. But to answer your question of who the best straight people are... Male models that don't talk? Allies? Yeah, but that's the thing. I guess no. I'm trying to think of my own straight friends. Do you guys know Jeremy Levick and Rajat Suresh? No. On Twitter, not personally. Jeremy used to be Nomi's babysitter. They're both comedians. Nomi's always like, proud of my former babysitter. But they're just two... super sweet, super funny, straight guys that don't go out of their way to like, you know, affirm my experience. They just are normal and I can have a normal conversation with them, but they're also not toxic. I mean, again, this would make more sense if you knew who they were, but like, I think somewhere between the two extremes, which are, you know, toxic.

Or such an ally that you're sort of like, well, what are you hiding at that point? Okay, sure. You're such an ally that you must be sucking dick. You're being a little too much of an ally. Yeah, exactly. Or it's not even in that sense. It's more so in the opposite sense. You're up to something nefarious here. Maybe you're so, like you actually secretly... are homophobic you're you're a straight mole trying to gather data you're posting on an anti-gay message board or something free time okay that that no that i think there are sinister straits of that nature out there still i mean i joke about this in the south i think this is like a real thing where there's like that kind of person who's like, I don't, look, I don't have any problem with gay people. I have some gay friends. I just, I mean, marriage, like, do they need to do that? Do they need that? Oh, yeah. It's like anytime anyone is like, I don't care if you're black, white, purple, or green. It's like, well, sounds like you do. I don't care if you're from Mars. You know what I mean? I'm down. I just love love. If you name more colors that humans don't come in, then that might mean that you're racist. Yeah, exactly. No purple. Green. That humans don't come in. Okay, okay. I mean, it's a tough question. I know that I put you on the spot. No, but it's actually a very good question, and I should be able to answer considering I co-host a podcast about straight culture, allegedly. That's all good, Playa. Speaking of your podcast, how do you deal with a co-host that doesn't like to talk about their personal life as much as you do? Oh, interesting. I wonder if that's true. That's just something I picked up. When we were doing your podcast, he seemed a little cock-shy when it came to personal matters. I don't remember him being cock-shy per se, but I do think in that particular episode, I had met Chris before. I mean, Chris and I have been in a group dinner together, believe it or not. I sort of knew more who you guys were, and I think... potentially i i don't want to project onto him because i think he was ultimately as always very funny and charming but like of course i wouldn't be surprised if from your perspective maybe i seem more comfortable or something but i don't think that he shies away from talking about his personal life although i think i sort of think both of us think that our personal lives are the least interesting things we could talk about and i kind of like like i think

we're at our best when we're talking about neither our personal lives nor pop culture where when we're sort of just like you know having fun theorizing anything else well it's like you know it's like we'll have a topic like you know uh when you guys were on the topic was home improvement this past episode the topic was fast casual restaurant it's always a straight topic and i think it's really fun to riff on essentially a prompt and you know be as stupid as possible and i think that's always when done well that's always going to be funnier than talking about like yeah you know what harry styles you know sorry i keep shitting on him what harry styles wore to the grammys don't drag chris i have to i have to politely i have to politely disagree um i know i just i know i see your point i i think that i think that i personally i just genuinely like pop culture and think that's what a lot of people are actually thinking about um all the time in a way that's unhealthy totally and i want to capital i want to capitalize on that yeah um and exploit exploit that but it's also not it's also not evergreen which is something to consider yeah yeah good point i mean that's the other thing it's true like because we i think you guys record closer to when you release like yeah we'll do like four episodes in one week and just like release them throughout the month or whatever thank them that's part of i think that's part of the reason that we're able to yeah talk about things that feel really current is because it is well and also From for me personally, I mean, it's different now, but for two years at Gawker, like my entire life was everyday reading. I mean, when I tell you every possible pop culture news story that was available, I mean, that's a good point because it's like it's fun. It really is. I mean, I grew up on pop culture media or whatever. Like I love. you know celebrity gossip and i love them you know reading about who's gonna win the oscar and whatever like i love that injected into my veins yeah but when you um when that is when that is your job and it's on a truly second to second basis because it's like i'll wake up and i'll assign like the morning blogs and then have a lunch break and assign the afternoon blogs like there is literally nothing i don't

know that is happening in pop culture and then it's like some friend from college will text me something like a week later and be like did you hear about like olivia wilde and i'm like i truly get violent i'm like yes and if you were educated you would have heard it too i wrote that article bitch yeah no yeah that happens to chris all the time where people will send us stories and we're like it's it's sometimes you really have to stop and take a deep breath and not reply with a cunty response totally of like yeah i sent this article to you four days ago because guess what they're the normal ones is the thing like yeah it's actually not normal like okay freak sorry yeah the amount of people that sent me these mischief shoes that look like mario boots that are modeled by sarah snyder oh yeah i'm like guys it's just like you know that i see i've seen this you know that i've seen this but the thing is they want us to talk about it on how long gone Which, like, it's weird, but if it comes at me that way, I almost forget about it versus if I see it organically and, like, think about it. Yeah, whereas my brain, I look at them and I'm like, your useless Twitter brain is like, the Mario boots stay on during sex. Yeah, truly, truly. And then it's out of your brain. And then it's just all pressed out of your brain. The Mario boots stay on during sex. Jason, you're the best to ever do it, bro. Jason, you got to tweet that right now. So that's the problem. I don't want that. The fruit is hanging too low. I want to encourage everyone to do better, be better. And I would rather save it for the pod than for tweets. But speaking of Gawker and you having to pay attention to all that stuff way too much, you mentioned the morning blogging. Would you consider Gawker? To be a blog? Well, currently I would consider it to be defunct. Not at the very moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. While the site is still up. I'll say this, and I can sort of talk around the BDG of it all. I think that... I mean, I guess a blog just sounds so outdated or something. I guess I would call it a website or I would call it like a digital...

media brand. I would never say that publicly, but ultimately that is in literal terms what it is. I think that calling it a blog or even a site is almost like this ironic... It's like when people say, good post, good blog. It's sort of an ironic, fun thing to harken back to 2007. If the website... is a website or mostly mostly blogs or things like that um and obviously uh unfortunately gawker went out of business and and you were laid off how does a website or a blog or a digital media space like that yeah make money and stay in business i mean i have to say i don't think it can and i don't think i don't think it could i i felt like it couldn't even before i accepted this job like i was like i was i i'm so grateful that i was there for two years and i really loved everyone i worked with but like i don't think any of us i hate to say it i don't think any of us were like well now this is going to be like a long-lasting this is going to be the rest of our careers and like now that i'm here we can finally save the sinking ship and also i mean i so i mentioned before that many years ago i worked as a researcher at this like journalism research center and part of what I mean, it's called the Tao Center for Digital Journalism. And what it does is study like the relationship between journalism and the Internet. So I was because I had spent, you know, three years like helping with reports about the pivot to video and helping with reports about like mass layoffs, blah, blah. I was even more cynical than the average person. Like I don't. I mean, I remember my boyfriend is a magazine writer, and I remember early on talking to him and just very bluntly being like, well, magazines are dead. And he was like, oh, whoa. Awesome. Well, I guess that's sort of my career. First of all, a boyfriend. So I'm more cynical than most, I think. Well, I think that the thing about the Gawker relaunch that got me excited was it was a blog versus the people thinking they're a genius for having a substack when that's just a blog. 100%.

100%. So we're all going to pay $2 to subscribe to 12 sub stacks we like. And if those were in one place, that would just be called a website and it would be easier to use. Yes. It would be called a blog and it would be easier to use. It makes no sense. It was fun. Like it really did feel – I mean and ultimately you could argue that that's why it could never have succeeded is because there was a sort of nostalgic element to it where you felt like you were reading the internet of like 2009 or something, which is what a very – vocal group of people want. Um, and our numbers were actually good. Like genuinely, I, the, the site was doing well for what it was, but it's just like, how do you, I don't know if I were a businessman or something and I was like, how do you scale this to be like, Oh, you know, like, uh, to have like branded content and to have like Tik TOK and whatever, like it would ruin the site. Like the whole, um, The reason it's good is because it feels like a sort of lo-fi blog with a bunch of like short form. I mean, something that Leah said that I really like agree with and that at first I was almost skeptical about, but she really won me over. She was like this fetishization of long form content that happened around like 2010 to 2015. It's like. for every one that is extremely good, there are like 16 that are terrible. And it's like someone like jerking themselves off. Like, and it's like, well, so if that's the case, then really commit to like a few good long things. And then ultimately what people want is like a little thing that's going to make them laugh or teach them something or, you know, introduce them to a young writer or whatever. No, I think that the best stuff, I mean, the best gawker things were almost like in my mind, what Twitter would be like if you could. if it was longer, which now obviously is a possibility. But I would click on stories and be like, damn, it's only 300 words, but it's fucking funny and it hits the whole time because someone, like you said, doesn't need to do 5,000 words to make themselves feel important and know that their degree from Vassler was worth it. It was a little bit more. No, 100%. I agree. Sometimes you just need to read an article called, let's face it, Blankets Are Gay or something like that. Yes, 100%. And by the way, all the people that worked at Gawker,

like the staff writers, when they did want to write a 5,000-word feature, they did, and it was very good. But I think it takes intelligence and force... It's hard. Not foresight. It's fucking hard. But no, it's sort of like it takes some... I actually think it's a sign of intelligence to know what is a blog and what is a feature. Sometimes something is basically just a tweet, and you can write... three paragraphs on it and you do it in 45 minutes and it's like funny and people share it and then you move on well they say i mean this is what they always say when you have an idea is like is this an article a book or a movie because it's rarely all three so pick one and kind of go in that direction also you just coined a new phrase instead of is it a bug or a feature is it a blog or a feature yeah yeah exactly there's something there there's something and actually like that is not to get too um high-minded about it but like The hunger to scale everything and to make everything into a book adaptation, a film adaptation, a miniseries adaptation, there's a reason why that is causing everything to be terrible. It's because some things are meant to be a certain format. I agree. That's why podcasting rules. Agreed. Tea. No one's ever going to make a movie about our podcast. Hey, don't do that, Jason. The opportunities are endless. Well, George, what is the move then? Do you want to have another job, or are you kind of all set? How much have you spent at Servo's in this last week? Oh, God. I mean, listen, I tried to go have a nice meal, and then I got food poisoning. It's your fault for going to Brooklyn. I hope you learned your lesson. I mean, you are absolutely right. And next time I'll go to Servos. No, I have sort of I have felt a little like overwhelmed recently because I've been trying to do all this sort of more comedy writing stuff on the side while having a full time job. And honestly, it's like I mean, it's not a good look like I will like I am behind on I'll be behind on emails. I'll be like some.

you know i'll be late to zooms it's just like i think that something had to give broadly speaking probably and i don't even want to pretend that i have it's i'm not saying i have like 15 tv shows in development or something like that but it's just sort of like think you know things take time and i think that often i would have weeks where i'd be like damn i feel so tired but i don't feel like any of the things i did i really like excelled at so i think i'm cautiously like feeling good about having having more free time i gotta say it sounds like you're describing covid yeah i guess so like it was a great reset that i needed my body's feeling sore lately i don't know why yeah but we all needed it well hopefully um hopefully things um only go up and up From here for you, George, we believe in you wholeheartedly. Yeah, George, we're fans. You're a very talented and funny person. We're team GC. Well, I'm a fan of you guys. We're fans. And it was an honor to be on the podcast. Oh, Matthew just texted me. How did it go? Well, tell Matt it went great and tell him that if he wants to discuss that fucking etiquette thing, he can text me directly. And we'll kind of go from there with that one. Well, you know, he wrote a couple of them, but his name is not on them. Smart. So it's sort of like... You're really walking on eggshells if you want to tell him which ones you like and which ones you didn't like, because they might be his. I'm willing to go toe-to-toe with him, and I know, unfortunately, that I will lose because he's much smarter than me. But I am meaner, so I think I have that going. Yeah, for sure. But maybe I'm not. You know better than I do. He can be cutting when he wants to be. I'll say that. Can you tell us which ones he wrote? You know what? I'll certainly tell you off mic. Maybe he doesn't want me to say it. I don't know. The one, because I remember the only, I was reading it, and the only one I remember seeing it actually signed by the author was maybe the worst and funniest one of you're not allowed to touch the small of my back if you're ugly. Yeah, that's so good. If all of them were comedic like that, then it would make sense in context. Whereas if the rest of them are literally like, you know,

don't wear shoes inside the house, then it's weird to suddenly call someone ugly in the next line. You make a good point. All right, George, thank you for joining us on How Long Gone. Everybody follow George on the internet and also listen to his podcast. Start with the How Long Gone episode to get your feet wet and then you can dive in. It's produced, it's executive produced by comedian Will Ferrell, so that's a nice bonus. Yeah, Big Money Players Network, we love you guys. Big Money Players Network. Nothing feels more George than that. Thank you for joining us, and we'll talk to you soon. All right. Thanks, guys. Ciao. Our honeymoon. Our honeymoon. Our honeymoon. Dreaming away your life Dreaming away your life Dreaming away your life Dreaming away your life